Episode 107: From Whistleblower to Multiple 6 Figures

In this episode, Marvette talks with her friend and client Wanda Swan, an advocate, prevention strategist, speaker, published scholar and anti-oppression coach. Wanda chats with Dr. Lacy about her experience going from university faculty to high-ticket business owner and consultant.

Follow Wanda Swan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandadswan/

Learn more about Wanda Swan: https://www.wanswan.com/wanda-swan

Follow along on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marvettelacy/

TRANSCRIPT:

Hey friends, the time has come to finish your dissertation graduate and become doctor. Welcome to office hours with Dr. Lacy, where we talk about how to finally master this time management thing. So you can stay on top of it without losing your mind. Every Wednesday, you can find a new episode wherever you listen to podcasts. Make sure you hit the subscribe button to make sure you never miss an episode. I'm Dr. Marvette Lacy, your dissertation writing strategist here to be with you along every step of the way. I would like to thank you for coming to today's office hours. Let's get started on today's episode. Have you ever wondered what it would be like to have your own consulting or coaching business? Did you pursue your doctoral degree? Because you wanted to get into speak in echo cell team. And I would like to invite you to the dissertation, to consultant webinar happening on Tuesday, February 23rd, at 7:00 PM. Eastern hit the link in the show notes to sign up. I will be sharing the top ten steps you need to take in order to get your first three paying clients. See you there.

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to a new episode of the podcast. Y'all know what it is. I want you to know that I'm recording is on a Friday, which is really dangerous. Now, usually I record these podcasts episodes on a Monday when I'm feeling fresh and I can get through most of my words without stumbling over them, but y'all are welcome. I'm doing this on a Friday, but as you could hear, I have another special guest. I'm so excited for this conversation because I'm excited for just our story of how we met, ran in similar circles, but we were never in the same circle until last year. And so that is very interesting. And I felt like I knew all about her. I knew I heard her name since I moved to Georgia, which is very fascinating, but without further do you, let's welcome Wanda to the show. Hi Wanda. Hello.

That's crazy that you heard my name. Ooh, that's so weird when people tell me that.

Circle of right, sexual violence work, and I feel like that circle gets even smaller when people start, like, do you know such and such. And then I did my, had to do an administrative internship for the doc program and it was at Emory and I was in the conduct office. And so other way your name came up. Listen, I just had to do it for a class grade. Cause I had five years of full time experience post-masters. You know how academia be coming up with these rules?

Yes. Yeah. I'm so happy to be here.

Yes. So tell us a little bit about you. What, what do we need to know?

Hmm, That's a good question. What do you need to know, I've never been asked that before. So I am Mississippi bred and fed. Georgia pay the state. I am a lot of things, a former higher ed professional, 15 plus years within higher ed. Uh, I am an anti-oppression coach. I am founder and executive director of a nonprofit, a 501 3c Georgia base that specifically support survivors of violence who identify as black and or African American. I prioritize Black folks for living. That's the work that I do and the nature of my work is, as you stated earlier, is anti-violence work. So I've been in the antiviolence movement for quite some time and I've worked predominantly within higher education for nine to five, but I've also done a lot of consulting work before stepping out into my own company and businesses. I did a lot of consulting work with communities with non-profits, with for-profits and a lot of training I've co-created spaces, professional organizations with, for the field I am in the middle of writing. Now, something that will be interesting to relate to fluffy.

I won't talk too much about that, but I think what people need to know about me is that everything that I learned about how to do this work, I learned before leaving the country in Mississippi, before leaving the Backwoods, there is an organic nature to this work that I think is connected to the identity that I hold as a black woman. A lot of the work that I'm doing now as an anti-oppression coach is centered on the framework anti-oppressive advocacy framework, which is seven years of research that I did when I asked the question, where are the black founders of the anti-violence movement? I was raised in this movement by black practitioners, right? Community based practitioners who always told me that this field was created on the backs of black women. And so I think that a lot of the ways in which this field has been professionalized in general has been both exciting, but also to the detriment of black expertise. And so a lot of the work that I do is unapologetically centering black expertise and the narrative around black trauma and spaces that are considered white spaces and spaces that like to use umbrella terms instead of talking about black folks and the relationships that exist between anti-blackness and wasted time.

Oh, that's, that's the podcast you can go, we can go. So Wanda yes, a part of the happy free and pay collective, which you also start it and it continues to be a one-on-one client one-on-one business client. And so you often hear me talk more and more about that. And we have expanded our program to be a comprehensive program that not only helps you finish your dissertation, but start your consulting business and your coaching business. And so how we, we came to work together was we were part of a research team doing, you know, thinking about the ways in which for me the focus was how do we bring together practitioners and researchers to actually present something that will be published or would actually help people instead of just like talking about the work, like let's put some meat on it. Um, and so we were a part of the same group and I just want you to give people an idea of where you were at that time. And then you could tell the story of how we exactly, you can started to work together when we transitioned from this for research colleagues to over in this coaching, um, situation.

Absolutely. Yeah. Are y'all ready because this is the whole situation. Okay. So I will say what spring 2020 was when you and I first connected for the purposes of the research project. And I got this email from someone named Marvette, who said that they got, they were told to reach out because there is a project that's happening. And my name came up for possible participation in and I was like, Oh wow, this is dope. Okay. Hell yeah, I would love to. And it was also a really interesting time because it was also a time where I was enjoying a very long lasting impromptu vacay from my former institution. And so it was, I call it an impromptu vacay because they put me on paid administrative leave because I was a whistleblower because they was raggedy and they expected me to be okay with them, treating survivors like shit.

And so I, I wasn't, it just, it wasn't what I wanted. And so, um, as a beautiful, and as y'all know what happens when we get real vocal in white spaces, we either have to assimilate or they gonna put us out of the house. And so given that I had a flawless performance record and just all around dope ass professional, they had to out something to do. So they put me on a paid administrative leave until they figured out what to investigate me for and maybe what they can accuse me of doing. And it was great. It was great. And I thought I met Marvette during that time. And actually it was, I think the first time we met as a group, it was when I said, I just wanted to let y'all know I'm going to improptu vacay like me and my university. We don't go together no more right now. So I don't know where this is going to end up still getting paid. They literally literally just paying me to just stay out of the way cause I just irritate them. And so I am enjoying it. And then as the project progressed, right, uh, we got to a point, I think it was like early summer, right? Early, early summer may ish. I think of 2020. Where 2020. Yeah. May issue of 2020 where we were still meeting and we met that day and it just happened to be a space where it was just all black women in the space that day. Cause the research project group was fairly nice sized group, fairly diverse group. And, but that day was just all black women there and it just became, I think that was one of the pieces that was so powerful for me.

Just the way it organically came together to be a space of healing and really doing some checking in with just how are you, just in the world right now? Right. And so that was a conversation that led to me saying, you know, it was official at this point. I was terminated from my institution. I still don't know why. And it was, I think like almost a year I was on paid administrative leave for a year, just chilling and creating, um, nonprofit, like working consultants to live my best life. And I had, again, like I said, for seven years, I was on this research project that was, you know, and it was an opportunity for me to really think about because after I answered that question of who were the black founders, the second question was how in the hell were they able to get this done? Because some of the black founders at the anti-violence movement were former slaves. And so I'm like, how, how is this, how is this a thing? How did y'all do that? Right? Which led me down a path to late black feminist abolitionism, right. And looking at this from the aspect of any, all ills, all the person feels. And it gave me the opportunity to think critically about the anti-violence field and to really think about the ways that the field depends so heavily on white supremacy to run and, um, has such unhealthy relationships to carceral systems that are harmful to black folk. And so it was really a way for me to be able to, to create a framework so that the anti-violence field can check itself. Right. The folks who are doing the work to support black survivors specifically can check itself. And I think it's, it was also a way for me to talk about black folks without having to use BiPOC without having to use people of color.

Right. Because although those, those acronyms are important. It can also, it can also lead to erase and when it's not used effectively, and that is what has been happening within the field. And so I'm excited, right? Because I got this thing and it's just like, this is amazing. Like maybe, maybe it's not amazing, but in my head, in my heart, this is dope. You know? And so I created this training and I, I was like, this is just going to be my next chapter. Right. So I had this nonprofit and I have this training component to it. This is my signature training component. This is what I want to do. I have 501c3 status, like we are up and running and doing right. So I'm in this meeting. And at this point, like we all enjoy a very fairly like cordial like jovial relationship.

But this is the first time I feel like I've had a conversation with Marvette that was like real conversation with my vet. And so we're talking and everybody is, you know, oppressed. We all feel some of the same similar things, so we can talk and we can commiserate. Right. But it was also like, yeah, like, so I'm, I'm a free agent now, like I'm doing this and I'm doing that. And this is what I'm doing next. And you know, I have this, this training and I am just gonna let that research do, I'm gonna let it do. And so all of a sudden y'all Marvette becomes a different person, a whole different person come shows up when I say that. And so it's a really interesting, it's really interesting to see because she went from like, oh kiki kiki. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. A black girl magic on boom, boom, boom. To, so tell me how you're going to get white women in this field to do this work. And they'll tell me no, no, no. Tell me what you're going to say to them. No, no, no. Like scripted. I'm a white woman go. And I'm like, what if, what happened? What? And then she tells me, I have been watching you for a long time. I've been hearing about you and I've been seeing you on social media. And I just keep thinking to myself, she just has no idea. And if I can just get close enough to her, I got plans. And so I'm sitting here just completely shocked. And I'm like, wait, what, what happened? What are you doing? And then the questions came right.

And it was like, right. And it was all about what are you going to do with this training? How much are you going to charge for this training? How many people are you trying to train? What is your strategy? What is your game plan? What platforms are you using? What is the sustainability practices that you're going to like? And I'm just like that. Ain't just tell me, tell you that, uh, I just, I got this training, right? Like let me live in my light for right here. Like, I'm so proud of it. Right. But what's the plan. And I said, well, I think I'll just, you know, at this point I know that folks who are doing this work don't have money to pay for this. Right. And so we all know like folks who are doing anti-violence work, especially folks of color, disproportionately underpaid, what they hire you and professional development monies is it's a joke. It's not a thing. This is also during the time where we are looking at a whole situation, an impending pandemic.

Right. And so it was outside 25, $35 per person. I just want people to come to the webinar. And then the rain came okay. And Marvette took that opportunity. And I tell Marvette this all the time she's like that auntie that you love, that like works in like does manual labor. You have an aunt worked in a factory. Like I have a lot of family members who do blue collar labor and just strong. You know what I'm saying? Just the strong don't know your strengths and, but it's loving. And so when they hug you, it hurts. That's Marvette, Marvette is the strong arm auntie the work in the chicken factory, back in Mississippi, who, when she hugs me, my collarbone hurt. Right? And so there's this a space where, you know, but it was necessary because.

she told me she was like, higher Ed has taught you that you give everything away. And you're just glad that people are there. That is not how you live. It's not how anyone should live. That is not how you should choose to continue to define how your business runs from what you have explained. This particular training you should be charging maybe, Oh, I don't know, maybe three, four or five, $600 per person. And almost fell out the chair. I was like, no noone would ever do that, what are you talking about? No one whatever ever pay for that. Like, this is not a thing. And, but it was, it was a conversation where in my brain, as she was talking, there's a part of me that was like, she crazy. And like, not regular crazy, but like, still Good, good, crazy. But then there was another part of me that's like, is this the worst she in? And how can I be a part of that? Because that seems like a fantasy, but a fantasy that I wouldn't mind stepping in. Right. And so she politely strong armed into a first meeting and I'm standing by it. That is what happened. Like, cause I was so overwhelmed because again, she was, and I was just like, what, whatever it takes to end this conversation. Sure. Just let me know. Let me know. Just let me know when you want me to show up on the zoom because I just didn't want to talk about this no more.

Yeah. It's funny. And so like, right. Remember the context of going into summer 2020? Yes. We have realized that for real, this pandemic because not going to be just like three weeks, like people originally thought they were going to be in this for a while. We were also waiting for 45's administration to release the new title nine, like updates. And they had in youth though, part of this training was that you were going to be explaining to folks what it means and how they can incorporate that into their, to their work. And I was just sitting there thinking like, not only are you going to break this down for people, but you're going to tell them how to use it. When people out here doing janky workshops and split $500 and just regurgitating what the news press said, like they don't make sense to me. And so in coaching, there's this term that's called risk the relationship that if you are constantly thinking about your client or anyone who's potentially considering to be your client, at some point, you're going to have to make the decision to risk the relationship. Meaning you're going to have to say something that may not land well, or it might not be received well, but you're doing it from a place of love and that you see something different that the other person may not see. And so in that moment, I was like, I got to risk it. Like I'm supposed to cause for you were talking, I felt like for a while, but I was going back and forth in my head of like, should I say something? Should I not? We're not even in a coaching situation. And I have a personal rule that if someone does not reach out for coaching, I don't like go to like, be like try to strong arm them or force them. But at my, my practice had caught up with me and my ethics as a black women was like, no, no, she is not going to be out here talking about some $25 ticket when people should be paying thousands of dollars for this information. Like, yeah,I was so proud that $25, like I just need y'all to sit in there. Yeah. I was so proud of that decision. 25, $35 a ticket.

Like, is that so much about the money as it is about what they were going to walk away with? Like what they would be able to do as institutions within their like, it's just, I was like, absolutely. And so I was like, I just would feel like I just felt the culture. If I do not say anything honest, I had to switch into coach mode, but look, I, you, we, you signed up and it's the whereabouts to it'll, you know, we're coming on almost a year, about nine months, eight months Drag my feet the whole way too. Yeah. Well, what have you been able to do in this, in this period?

Oh my gosh. Everything. Um, so this was the, this was the scariest experience in my life because it is one thing to be to chest and say, I'm taking it. No me I'm betting on the sip and I got it. I got it. But there, when you have an accountability system attached to that, right, and you are also like, your whole ground has shifted, the world has shifted at this point. Right? And so it's a completely different world as someone who's doing this work in the anti-violence field, right. Having a plan during the pandemic was something that saved my life. And I don't think that that would, it wouldn't have happened this way if it were not for Marvette leadership, because it felt, and people often say it feels like a sneak attack. It's like you just came out of nowhere and now you're everywhere. And you've utilized this space. It's opportunity that the pandemic created to slow things down. Um, and also remember like I rested, I was resting at home for a year so far and being paid well. Okay. So all I had was free space and time to think about what are the gaps within my field and what is it that advocates or provincial professionals need that could help them. And so I had all of these things, that's just re raring to go off from this framework that I created and it, but I didn't have a plan and I didn't have the confidence and I didn't have the know-how. And so all of those things, like all of those things are what I gained from this experience. And now I, um, what did we say nine months? Is it hasn't only been nine months? Cause we had an April. Oh

My God. Okay. And Marvette knows, I don't like talking about know, like talking about money, but my entire life changed. I went from having to depend on a nine to five, which was a forever to forever because they, there weren't any professional boundaries. And I went from being uncomfortable in these spaces and feeling like every time I fought for, um, a survivor, every time I fought for person of color, every time I fought for equity, it was just more boxes being checked against me. And I was also being retaliated against and harassed by supervisors in the space. And so it was just a very unhealthy environment. I went from that to sitting in my house, watching, designing women, often eating chips and just watching my bank account, just feel like I don't know, a better way to say it. I went from 25, $35 thought, you know, value for my content and just praying that I can make $300. Uh, every time I offer a webinar session to a six figure business, right. I think it was what Marvette, maybe three months into the program. Um, and I had already made like $20,000, just three months in, and now I consider that a slow month.

Hmm. (laughs)

Which is crazy to even say, okay, they didn't even say, you know, but I think that if it completely changed my life, it,what I realize is that I have been so invested in a system that never saw me and never intended for me to be free. And we talk about that all the time. You know, we talk about that in our work, when I'm working with students. And because that's how we try to get students to, to be empowered, to fight for folks who don't have as much privilege as they do. We we're always talking about that, but I don't think we realize just how deeply seated it. This goes into the very core of who we are and all of the systems that we interface with.

And I am now in a space where I y'all, I make over a hundred thousand dollars last year and I ain;t even wear a bra half of the time and not to be too graphic. I'm one of those women, I need to wear a bra if I'm gonna do business and all I have to do that. Now, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's a freedom, there's a freedom here. There is pride in my work. There's a centering of my expertise. There's validation that I have for myself in a way that I've never had before, because there's a system and a world that I'm creating and I'm safe here. And that, that is what Marvette, I think overall, you gave me a space where I can be safe, where I can hire other people where they can be safe, where their dreams aren't put to the side where we're building a movement together. Right. So where all of this went and, and how, where this ended up is along with a nonprofit and now have a anti-oppressive coaching business start by talking that is just flourishing and growing. And you know, now I'm, I'm doing one-on-one anti-oppression coaching with folks and organizations who are interested in, in finding out if they, how unsafe, how unsafe are there spaces for black folks? Like who does that? Right. Like that, that, but that is what I've been able to manifest through this work, through this lens, through the one-on-one experience with, with these. And I'm like, there's so much, there's so much, but I know we're coming to time. And so I'm like, we just need to have, I think it'd be really dope if we had like a round table discussion, like make you and Shaquinta and other clients too, just to just go deeper into this. Because what I also wanted people to see is that you don't have to be out here doing what everybody else is doing. Like, I could be a business coach and help you make money. Like, that's the popular thing, but you, yeah, you can have a whole multiple six figure business have been helping Noah and may get it together, chow. Right. Or just helping your own people or like being starting a movement. But yeah, like it's passable, but I know like we need to sometimes see things

And it's hard. That's the mindset part of it though. Right. And you know, people fail often, you know, or critique mindset work often. But as somebody coming from an environment where like, I have an uncle who told me when I asked him, what did you want to be? Right. What is it that you, he said, I never had a dream. I never had dreams. Right. And so that's, that's the type of family dynamic I came from. And so my set work is so important because there's so much that unhealthy attachments, whether it was money or I healthy relationships with money, unhealthy relationship with the understanding of who I am, what I could be. And I think that was also like, yes, the money is great. Right. But that could not have happened if my mindset had shifted. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And it's like ongoing work too. And I know like people will be like, just telling me what to do. And I used to be there to like, just tell me what to do and I'll do it. I don't need mindset. I got all these degrees. I know how to set goals. I know how to, you know, just, just think positive, but it's so much, so much more than that.

The damage to the owner would just be so damaged. And you just like, you're gonna take all your damage with you into your business.

Um, yeah, because money doesn't, it highlights everything. Absolutely. So how can people catch up with you? They want to learn more. Oh,

I'm always, I hate any streets and food. So email right. [email protected], w a [email protected]. Uh, I am on Instagram. I'm usually the person who's there and a bear hoodie talking mad. It would read the ad Lawanda D Swan. Where else can you see me? I'm I'm on Twitter. Not, I'm not committed to Twitter, but that'd be there sometime at petty underscore truth. Yeah.

We will put all of the information in the show notes. So yeah, I can catch up be, I mean, we, I feel like we didn't even get to scratch the surface, but I'm so grateful that you did decide to join. You were not scared off I'm. I'm so excited on what is to come and thank you for sharing your time and your experience with us today.And I have a problem. Thank you. Take care.

Thank you for joining in for today's office hours. If you're ready to take this work to the next level, I invite you to join the happy free and pay collective. We will show you how to finish your dissertation and build your consulting business, using the skills and knowledge you already possessed. Come on over to Marvette lacy.com and let's get started. I'll see you on the inside of the collective bye for now.